Which terminal is POSITIVE on Weber speakers?

[mlannoo]

I'm guessing the one marked in RED, but I'd like confirmation.  I've got a Weber Sig12S Alnico for my 5E3 kit.

thanks
matt

[teledeluxe]

The red one.

[danskman]

Reminder:
Electrically speaking, you really don't care about "positive" or "negative" on any single speaker in most of the amps. In a multi-speakers configuration, you MUST wire them the same way ("+" together and "-" together in a parallel config, or "+" on "-" on "+" on "-" etc on a serie configuration). The goal in a mutil-speakers config is to have the speakers cones go forward or backward in phase. 

[357mag]

So when I hook up my Silver Bell in my amp it doesn't even matter which wires go where?

I can put the black wire on the red terminal and it won't matter?

[Schmidlin]

Won't matter with one speaker.  But you can always do the 9-volt battery test to confirm polarity.

[billybythelake]

As Danskman points out electrically no it doesn't matter except when there is only one speaker being used.

The speaker " motor " works either way. If you want it to push first rather than retract you can determine which direction it is working with a simple power source like a nine volt battery by momentarilly making a connection and seeing which way the speaker moves ( not too long just enough to see the movement then disconnect ).
If it pushes out then you are connected in the conventional positive to negative relationship with the battery terminals if not then it's the opposite. This is usually only necessary when the speaker terminals are unmarked and usually the red is the positive though on occasion mistakes can be made though not often.

That's sort of a standard test that lets you determine if the speaker is moving poutward ( pushing ) first as is usually the norm.

There is some discussion about whether this makes any difference or not but for the sake of standardisation I'd recommend you make it push first ( ie normal positive lead to positive trminal and neg to neg.

When you use more than one speaker in a cab you can determine the same thing about each speaker individually then hook them up as Danskman suggests for the different configurations ( series or parallell ) and they will be in phase with each other and not fighting each other for dominanace.

Hope that helps explain things   

Schmidlin was replying while I was typing this up....

b

[Schmidlin]

Toughtful input, bbtl.  I didn't want to over-do the info for a guy with one speaker. 

I respectfully differ with your push-is-plus & pull-is-negative theory (if I understand correctly).  To start, strings vibrate in all directions.  These are not pistons with down stroke being the power and upstroke being the coast.  It's AC, with power on both swings.

More importantly, phase inverts many times troughout the typical tube amp.  Also, hooking up an OT with neg FB knows shows it is a coin-toss as to if you are getting phase in or out (is there an industry standard for this?).  In short, phase from in to out is difficult to calculate.  Maybe amp companies control this and it is something I need to be schooled on, but in my experience, it seems to be tail-chasing 101.

I enjoy discussing/learning theory, but I like to focus on a heirarchy: components/designs that I notice affect tone/dynamics more, to less.  Never noticed a difference here, thus my thinking.  I suppose a phase switch on the speaker with a comrade flipping as you play will reveal the truth.  Any takers??

Just my $.02

[billybythelake]

You are quite correct about the amp phase situation and that it is continually in flux when a dynamic signal is being amplified if that sounds like a good way to put it Schmidlin.

I was referring to the speaker motor only as being intended by convention to move out ward first whenh a signal is applied as I understand it which would be where the industry standard comes in. Of course every once in a while there is one that somehow is reversed that shows up and needs to be hooked up " backwards " when more than one speaker is being used or they 'fight ' each other in the circuit.

Technically or electrically they could all be hooked up backwards and it would probably not make much difference to the sound coming out of the amp. This has been discussed here and elsewhere i.e. does it matter if the speaker/speakers are pushing or retracting first when a signal is applied and as I understand it the jury is still not in agreement on that one.

Interestingly depending on the number of gain stages it seems that two amps can be 'out of phase ' with each other while still being internally ' in phase ' in the circuit which can create problems with multiple amps being used of a number of sorts , but that's a different discussion .

If I misrepresented push and pull as plus and negatrive for simplicity I appologise . My intention was to equate outward movement  as push or plus movement and compare it with inward movement as retraction or negative movement  which would be the same electrically if the speaker motor is hooked up in the conventional manner as I understand it.  This is almost impossible to see with a dynamic signal but shows up with the 9 volt trick making it simple to decide which connector is positive and which negative .

Outside of that the conventional wisdom seems to be that it is almost if not impossible to hear any difference whether the speaker is hooked up in either direction with only one in the circuit.

Now just as a point of contention if the speaker is hooked up differently than say the speakers in an extension cab will it effect what is heard or electrically cause changes in the way the signals move through an amplifier ?
If no then no problem but if yes then having all speakers hooked up the same way seems like a good idea to avoid future problems.   

 

b

[Schmidlin]

Thanks, b.  I am an armchair charlatan. 

IMO your extension cab absolutely needs to be in phase with your internal speaker.  Treat it like 2 internal speakers.
This I know: out of phase speakers snap fuses.  No kidding.  Tube amps hate it, and your ears won't like it much either.

And a head scratcher: if you want your first vibration to always move the speaker forward, what happens when you alternate and pick upwards? 

[billybythelake]

Good question ....

does the direction of the movement of the string determine the direction of the movement of the speaker ? 

Or is it simply a different way of initiating the signal through the circuitry ?   

Now where is that head scratcher Icon ?   

b

[Schmidlin]

QUICK CORRECTION:  Out of phase speakers IN SERIES snaps fuses.  In parallel is just annoying.

Another question: Should you flip your phase when you tour Australia??

[billybythelake]

Where is the Aussie who used to show up here ? he'd know the answer to that one.

  What is the electromagnetic effect of being nearer  a  geo pole ?

We had better be careful or this board will turn into the jokes forum. 

Good correction  didn't even give it a thought    when you put it the first way but if they are hooked up right it would not have mattered anyhow .

b

[navyjones]

Okay, how about this situation: does polarity matter when the extension speaker is not near the main speaker? i.e., not perfectly in line with the main speaker (several feet away from, or even on the other side of the stage?) Drummer wants me to run an extension cab near him so he can hear me... Thx.

[Schmidlin]

It matters less the farther away it is.  You should be OK with that, but why not run a quick test and get things 100%?

Btw, you have a gracious drummer.

[navyjones]

Yes, thanks, I will test the polarities (I've heard that EV actually labels their speakers backwards from everybody else--go figure).

But this is the thing, and please understand that I'm not trying to be argumentative, just trying to wrap my head around the concept: In separate cabs, wouldn't the proper polarity vary depending on the relative location of the cabs? Say, just as an example, if one cab is a foot in front of the other vs two feet in front of the other? Seems I've read that with stereos and subwoofers you're supposed to just try both polarities on the sub and listen which way has the best bass reproduction and which sounds like it's doing some cancelling... not that I'd try to do that with guitar cabs.

(Yeah, the drummer's a great guy and doesn't play overly loud--gotta love that. We all use low-watt amps and try to keep the stage volume down... and I suspect he thinks of us like the Stones and I'm Keif.)